Section A - Cooling System, continued.....

Subject: Re: Cooling Systems Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 05:55:38 -0400 (EDT) From: HStew10677@aol.com To:

If you supply the specifications we can offer a special Tiger pump for a slightly higher price.
I had the expansion tank on the Tiger confused with the 60's big block style. Simply disconnect it and install the thermostat.
The Dedenbear units I have seen have the same problem the stock unit has, the cap is on the pressure side of the system. The Moroso unit is typically used on circle track cars. Circle track suppliers such as Afco, Speedway, and Coleman offer their own versions.
Stewart Components
Subject: Re: Cooling Systems Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 06:18:19 -0400 (EDT) From: HStew10677@aol.com To:

Correcting the Tiger expansion tank may be as simple as re-routing the line that connects the tank to the radiator to the inlet side of the pump (splice into the heater hose if both ports are being used).
If you have the space this would be a very simple yet proper fix.
Stewart Components
Subject: Re: Canadian Fans Date: Wed, 15 Oct 97 00:02:27 -0700 From: JEFF_CARTER@HP-Cupertino-om5.om.hp.com To: alcon@earthlink.net CC: tigers@autox.team.net

Allan, I bought my fan asy in Sept. of '93 from Frontier Ford in Santa Clara, CA. The part # is FMCC9DZ8600A. Cost was $63.06 list. Ph. # is 408/247-6583. If this doesn't pan out, Norm had a contact at one of the dealerships in his local as I recall. I was told that I would need to take from 3/8 to 1/2 inch off of ea. blade. I took 1/2". Hindsight, I probably could have gotten away with 3/8". Just needed to pull the lower corners of the fan shroud out a small amount. Good luck, JC
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Canadian Fans Author: Non-HP-alcon (alcon@earthlink.net) at HP-ColSprings,mimegw5 Date: 10/13/97 8:13 PM
Well, finally getting off my keister and employing many of the recomendations made regarding cooling Tigers. The radiator is out of the Tiger and will be re-cored with a 4 row Modine later on this week. Am considering the Edelbrock or Stewart Hi-Po Water pumps for later on. In the meantime, I would like to get my hands on one of those 6-blade Ford Canadian Fans. Have tried many Ford dealers to no avail.....seems as though the part is discontinued. Did some junk yard shopping this weekend and could not locate any 69-70 Mavericks with Air Conditioning that had the Fan intact. Any sources you can offer??? Do ya have one lying around gathering dust?? Thanks for any help the list can offer. And most importantly, thanks to all the good advice from the list that has lead to these modifications. (Including blocking the openings near the horns.....figure it actually dropped 5 degrees and kept the car cooler, longer, than ever before!) Regards, Allan B9472373 (8-{)>

Subject: Ford 6 blade fans Date: Sun, 30 Nov 1997 12:00:47 -0800 From: wwwdg@webtv.net (David Franchi) To: tigers@autox.team.net, wwwgf@webtv.net

My brother HAS the early Ford 6 blade 15" dia. fan on his Tiger. He had new motor mounts about 10 years ago and it had good clearance. I just examined his car again and the mounts have sagged and the fan is very close to the rack now (time for new mounts!) this early Ford 6 blade fan (C4DE-8600-A) is not the same as the later Ford 6 blade fan (C9DZ-8600-A). The "C4DE" has an original 1" hub hole, "C9DZ" has a 5/8" hub hole. The blades are not the same: C4DE has 3 1/8" wide blades, C9DZ has 4 3/16" wide blades. The pitch on C4DE is less than C9DZ. The distance between the front and rear of the fan is 1 1/8" on C4DE and 1 15/16" on C9DZ. Both fans are 15" in dia. and have 6 blades spaced with the same stagger. There is a photo of the "LAT 42" fan in the holomogation papers (or see Book Of Norman pg 85) and to me it looks like my C4DE-8600-A fan. The C9DZ-8600-A fan is stamped on each blade (CF-C9DE-A) "FoMoCo" in a rectangle. The front of the hub is stamped (P13465) "FRONT" the rear of the hub is painted in silver MADE IN CANADA. David Franchi
Subject: Re: Cooling with Oil Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 11:16:15 From: Bob Palmer To: CC: tigers@autox.team.net References: 1

Steve, et al.,
Dale, of Dale's Restorations 1468 Gage Street San Bernardino, CA 92408 Tel: (909)799-2099
His last name (Polish) is Akuszewski. Pronounced A-Koo-Shev-Ski. Don't try and pronounce it while looking at his correctly spelled name. Regarding oil cooling, some years back I fitted a Mazda RX3 oil cooler to my Tiger. This is a nice cooler with a built in temperature bypass valve. For the last ten years I have run without it, using only a ten quart baffled pan. I also use synthetic oil to improve high temperature tolerance. Probably one only needs a separate oil cooler if they are running very long and very hard (not just 1/4 mile drag runs for example). I do not believe that cooling the oil is an alternative to cooling the water in a small block Ford. In the Mazda rotary, at least half the total engine cooling was accomplished by oil cooling, hence the very efficient oil radiator on the rotary engines. I've wondered just what percentage of cooling is "air cooling" on even a water cooled engine. I suspect it is typically quite a bit. As much as 25% perhaps?? It seems like it is important to get good air flow around the engine as well as through the radiator, but it's hard to separate the two. If air cooling was unimportant in "air cooled" engines, then why would they go to the trouble of making fins on the cylinders, etc.?? I certainly don't know what the percentage would be, but I'd guess that not more that 50% of the heat is dissipated in the oil cooler. Any experts out there know the answer to this trivia question?
Bob
At 10:30 PM 11/30/97 +0100, you wrote:
>Best advise - Find someone who has done it properly, and follow his >success. I believe Dale A., in San Bernadino, has had a great deal of >experience here. (I'd spell his last name, but I'd get it wrong - help >me here) > >Steve > >-- > Steve Laifman B9472289 > > Bob Palmer UCSD, AMES Dept. rpalmer@ames.ucsd.edu
Subject: FW: 6 blade fan Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:07:23 -0500 From: "Parlee, Brad (ED&C,SLS)" To: tigers@autox.team.net

The manual had a misprint. This is pointed out in the sunbeam survivor.
> Fraser,Ron wrote: > > > The distance I used for the water pump hub as described in the > service > > manual are as follows; > > > > 260 4.875" alum water pump > > > > 289 5.1" cast iron water pump > > > > These numbers came from the TE/AE Sunbeam Surviver Manual. > > > Ron Fraser > > > Funny, my Rootes Sunbeam "260 - 289" Workshop Manual specifies that > the > "Front face of pulley hub to pump housing face is 5.15 in. (13 cm) for > the 260 (aluminum) and 5.43 in (13.8 cm) for the 289 (iron with > back-side steel plate). I wonder why TE/AE quoted Manual would differ? > I > do have the referenced TE/AE manual, and the quote is correct. There > is > no mention, however, of a discrepancy in the CAT Shop Notes, or > Supplement. > > Any knowledge out there? > > -- Steve Laifman B9472289 >
Subject: RE: water pump hub distance Date: Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:16:42 PST From: "Fraser,Ron" To: tigers@autox.team.net

I don't think theTiger manual is a misprint concerning the water pump hub distance. I think you will find it is an exact copy of the FORD manual for a '64 Fairlane. It seems to me those cars needed the longer distance plus a 2 inch spacer for the fan just to get close to the radiator.
The information is just in error for a Tiger and willl cause the pulleys to be offset. The numbers from the Sunbeam Surviver make all the pulleys line up.
Ron Fraser
Subject: Re: Heater Core Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 19:07:01 -0400 From: Anita Barrett To: STUART_BRENNAN@HP-Andover-om3.om.hp.com CC: tigers@autox.team.net

At 02:14 PM 4/28/98 -0400, you wrote: > My original heater core started leaking at an end tank seam, so it's > going into a shop for some work soon. Since it's going under the > torch anyway, I am wondering what any of you have successfully done to > these cores. Do they routinely survive any sort of cleanout > operations, such as boil outs, or rodding out? Is there anything else > I should do while it's apart? > > I'm not expecting to get more heat or defrosting. I just want to keep > the green water off the rugs. > > Stu, I have repaired a few. They all had the same problem. The ends bulge out and then the edge seam starts leaking. The bulge is probably due to most people using a radiator cap with a higher pressure rating than the original stock cap and the poor design of the tank . There is a raised crease across the center of the end cap. Inside between the core and the crease is a sheet of brass that should be soldered in the crease. As there is no way to solder the sheet other than sweat soldering it from the outside. The solder joint in the crease fails and the ends are allowed to bulge even more until they fail. If you are going to repair the tank, then remove the end caps, hammer the end caps back to normal shape and do an extreme job of cleaning the inside of the crease as well as the sheet brass brace. I used silver solder to "tin" the crease and brace. I then filled the seam with hard solder. A lot of paste flux was then added to the the soldered areas. Now preheat the brass brace with a torch. With the outside of the end cap pointing down use a propane or similar torch to heat the crease from the underside as you press the core with brace into the end cap. ( Gentle hand pressure). If everything works, then the previously deposited solder in the crease will flow and bond to the brass brace. Do not solder the lip of the cap until you are sure the brace is firmly soldered. Do the other end the same way. Soldering the lip to the tank is easy. Good flame control is required to do this job. The core of the tank is heavy duty and could be rodded out like any old 1950's to 1960's radiator core. By the way, I have found that the MG-B has an identical heater core. One might consider fabricating some sort of an external stop to prevent the end caps from bulging.
Jim Barrett Tiger II 351C and others.

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