Section A - Cooling System, continued.....

Subject: Re: 351 heat problems Date: Thu, 13 May 1999 08:25:18 -0700 From: Steve Laifman To: Chris.S.Mottram@ecc.com CC: Tigers@autox.team.net References: 1

Chris.S.Mottram@ecc.com wrote:
> Chris S. Mottram@ECCI > 05/13/99 09:45 AM > > Jim Wrote: > "Previously had an air dam that extended from the lip behind the > bumper down to within 3" of the ground. Had rounded openings to allow air > to get to the stock TigerII oil cooler. This dropped the temperature a > good 15 degrees when running. However it wore out and I no longer have the > Air dam. Was made of a sheet of 3/8" plastic. This air dam also had a > major impact on > stability. No more"floating" above 130 mph, solid as if I were doing 55 > Mph." >
Chris replies:
> > I see lots of new cars with various black plastic > airdams underneath that I don't think would look too bad under a Sunbeam. > Has anyone found a nice looking airdam in a junkyard that is a reasonable > fit? I don't ever want to see 130 mph on my speedo unless I push the > needle there with my finger :-) > > Chris
Tigers,
I have used an "air dam" from s small G.M. car on the custom built car. It was about 3" high and 2 1/2 feet long, and made of black rigid ABS type material. Seemed to have a thickness of about 1/2 inch, and may have been backed by wood. I bolted it across the car, just in front of the radiator, with some aluminum angle.. It was not visible unless you lay on the ground. This was NOT the 'racing spoiler' but a utilitarian piece of hardware. It's purpose is to cause the air stream to be forced to go through a smaller gap than the cross member, when passing by the radiator. The effect is to speed up the air, to maintain it's required mass flow, and to thereby reduce the pressure immediately behind the 'dam'. This low pressure are allows the air flow through the radiator to increase dramatically, as the resistance to air flow is significantly reduced. In layman's terms, "the air sucked through the radiator". Much better cooling is achieved.
A secondary benefit is that this local pressure reduction causes the pressure on the top of the front of the car to be higher than the pressure at the bottom. This causes a downward force to keep the front end down.
It is not as drastic, or unsightly, as the flashy frontal dams extending from the "air dam" bumpers in the AMT versions of the Tiger, and newer flashy cars or race cars. But it is cheap, it does work, and it can probably fit the Tiger if placed on the front cross member, just ahead of the radiator. Some experimentation between adequate mounting, ground clearance, and position is probably necessary. If you knock it off at the concrete parking stops, or a speed bump, it's a cheap replacement, and won't hurt much if you allow for it to break away. This NOT have to be ground scrapping. I'd aim for a 50% reduction in the distance from the road to the cross member, as a first cut.
Would like to hear back from those who try it. Haven't needed it on the Tiger, so my experience is limited to a VERY low car, with heating problems that disappeared.
Steve -- Steve Laifman B9472289

Subject: Steve's Tiger Date: Fri, 14 May 1999 10:28:14 -0700 From: Vu X Tung To: laifman , rpalmer

Hi Bob and Steve:
Thanks Bob for suggesting to Steve that he gives me a ride in his Tiger. No offense is meant but I would have to decline. You see, I have a wife and four kids to support and I wouldn't want anything to happen to me yet :-). Besides, I have to maintain this "pristine asian image", and that means "no fast British car" :-).
About your question on boiling, Bob, yes it is the latent heat of evaporation that gives boiling such high heat fluxes. That and the additional turbulence caused by boiling. Yet, with the high coolant flow rate in the block, the surface must be considerably hotter than the boiling point for boiling to occur (could be 20, 30F or so). However, once boiling starts, it could bring the surface down very near the boiling point, hence colder than the surrounding metals. But that doesn't mean the boiling will go away. There is hysteresis in the process and once boiling has begun it will persist for a long time even if the surface has cooled down. It has to do with the presence of non-condensible gases in the cavities and also the roughness of the surface. But all this is just to answer your question, it has nothing to do with the discussion at hand, which we have all come to a common agreement.
About Bob's susgestion of increasing turbulence through the radiator tubes, I think it is a great idea even though I don't know how one can accomplish this without extensive modification of the radiator itself. Doing that, however, would kill two birds with one stone. You improve heat transfer on one side of the radiator (the coolant side only), and at the same time increase the back pressure on the water pump (turbulent flow would increase pressure drop through the tubes). This accomplishes the same thing as your 195F thermostat or Steve's restrictor, which should help if you are indeed having cavitation problem with the pump. By the way, did any of you actually confirm the fact that cavitation is there, or are we chasing the wrong ghost here? :-). Is the water pump making a low pitched humming noise? On the other hand, getting a bigger radiator might be a simpler solution. If you don't have room for a thicker radiator, then getting rid of the fan altogether and adding a thin electric fan on the front might yield enough room for that. But that's the brute force way of doing it and I have no idea what your car looks like under the hood. It might turn out to be just a stupid comment since you have no room to work with.
At any rate, good luck solving the problem and if I can be of any help, please do not hesitate to ask.
Best Regards,
Tung (which is my real first name - Immigration had my name backward and it has stuck since) :-)
Subject: Re: radiator hoses Date: Thu, 20 May 1999 18:56:10 -0700 From: Steve Laifman To: richards CC: "Tiger's Den" References: 1 , 2 , 3

richards wrote:
> Steve (archivist)- Do you have good numbers for the upper and lower > radiator hoses for the Tiger? Gates, Napa, etc..... > > Thanks in advance for any help- > > Chris in Trinidad
Chris,
I've used DAYCO 70682 for the lower hose. Need to trim about 5" off the long end. I also have a number for the upper hose like "080189 EB P HH80CH50 USA M.L.Y" stamped on the hose.
I have used a pair of Gates 20065, with a brass Gano filter in the middle. It is a little short at the upper connection and may bring the hose too close to the fan.
Steve

-- Steve Steve Laifman B9472289
Subject: Re: repro fan shrouds Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 20:24:30 -0400 From: "Schotland" To: Steve Laifman

I guess it depends on where you get your aluminum radiator because I've heard the ones Doug Jennings of Tiger Auto is selling are a very good (not perfect) fit with the original shroud. That's the one I'm planning to get for my car.
Gary
> Gary, > > If you get an answer, except for custom metal > fabricators that cost a fortune, why not ask about > one for the aluminum radiators? > > Steve > > -- > Steve > Steve Laifman B9472289 > Subject: Upper hose Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 23:04:37 -0500 From: "Andy Walker" To:

Hey, gang:
Just thought this might be of some help to someone. I had to replace the upper hose on my Mk1A today so I looked back through some of the notes that I had saved from this list to see what number of hose folks were using. I found the Goodyear #60710 listed as a perfect fit for the upper hose on a Tiger. I went to my local Auto Zone and they crossed it to their part #211. Again, a perfect fit. Hope this helps someone, especially if there is an Auto Zone handy.
Andy Walker B382001600
Subject: Upper Hose Date: Mon, 31 May 1999 20:54:33 -0700 From: randya@pacbell.net To: tigers@autox.team.net

Thanks - this is useful information. The top radiator hose I got from Rick at Sunbeam Specialities did *not* fit; I could not avoid interference with the fan. - Randy Antosiak
> Begin included message Hey, gang:
Just thought this might be of some help to someone. I had to replace the upper hose on my Mk1A today so I looked back through some of the notes that I had saved from this list to see what number of hose folks were using. I found the Goodyear #60710 listed as a perfect fit for the upper hose on a Tiger. I went to my local Auto Zone and they crossed it to their part #211. Again, a perfect fit. Hope this helps someone, especially if there is an Auto Zone handy.
Andy Walker B382001600

Subject: Re: Radiator Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:18:02 -0700 From: Steve Laifman To: Bruce Richards References: 1

Bruce,
I have re-posted that letter many times, and it seems to need a little clarification.
Modine has a Special Order division that makes specialized types. This falls in that category. There is no "factory" number. A radiator shop using Modine product knows how to order thru them.
The key issue is to know what you are requesting. The most important point is to get the basic core form their "High Efficiency Core" (HEC) line. there are 5/16 tubes on 3/8 centers, and were 4 rows, and 13-14 fins/inch. The dimensions of the header end plates are, of course, made to match the Tiger tank dimensions. A job for your radiator shop to specify, as well as the distance between headers for the tanks, as he has the original.
This should be adequate for your shop. It should fit the standard tanks, and be no thicker than the stock 3 row. There are additional steps that can be taken, if this isn't adequate. They include a pusher type electric fan, previously described and sourced, horn bracket extension and hole covers, LAT hoods. Remember to use a good quality thermostat. Drill a 1/16 to 1/8 inch hole in the moving plate to allow I don't know what, but all the racers use them and it works.
You need your system flushed, to get out the old crap, a brass cased Gano water screen filter to keep new scale from clogging your new radiator. In fact, since the brass unit seems to be a CAT exclusive, I believe the plastic unit has a brass ring to retain the screens with screws. If the radiator shop places this ring in the inlet to the radiator, you can attach the screens there, and not worry about cutting the top hose, or all those clamps. They are available at vintage Mustang parts suppliers.
Steve
-- Steve Laifman B9472289

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