Section A - Cooling System, continued.....

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Subject: Re: Tools & Fans Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 21:48:43 -0400 From: James Barrett To: tigers@autox.team.net

>Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 21:47:57 -0400 >To: "rflynn" >From: James Barrett >Subject: Re: Tools & Fans > >At 08:43 AM 7/23/99 +0100, you wrote: >> >>My saturday morning project (after watching cartoons of course) is >>installing one of those mythical 6-bladed FoMoCo fans on mon Tigre. >>Unfortunately, 3500 miles separate me from my usual source of tools >>(Dad), so I need to beg, borrow, & steal to get the job done. Can >>anyone help answer the following questions so I can get through this >>job with the minimum of false starts: >> >>- What tools will I need (sockets, spanners, etc.) >> >>- Do I *need* to take the radiator shroud off, is that a bad >> idea, or a good idea? >> >>- To get the new fan off, do I need to take the pully off or >> can I just unbolt the current fan and put on the new one >> directly? (I guess I'm asking if the fan bolts into the >> pully or bolts through the pulley.) >> >>thanks in advance, >> >>rick > The four fan blade bolts have 1/2" hex heads. The bolts >pass through the fan and pully and bolt to the water pump flange. >It is easier to get to the bolts if you remove the fan schroud. >As you remove a bolt (1/2" head) holding the schroud/radiator >replace the bolt to keep the radiator from moving around. >I personally do not remove the radiator to do this job unless the >fan is so close to the radiator that the bolts will not come out >without hitting the radiator. I use a long 1/2 closed end >wrench to remove the bolts. Place the wrench over the bolt >and then rotate the fan slowly while holding the wrench steady. > If the fan has a standard 5/8" hole and not a 1" hole >then either you make the hole bigger (I used a Greenly hole punch >on mine) or simply replace the water pump with a standard Ford pump. >You may have to press the flange back to match the original. Remove the >rear plate of the water pump and support the shaft from the rear > before you start pressing it back. To remove the water pump >you may very well have to pull the radiator as there are some very long >bolts holding the pump on. Most of the water pump bolts have 1/2" heads. >Recommend a 3/8" ratchet set to remove the water pump bolts. Spray >the bolts with PB Blaster before you try to brake them loose. If the >bolts start out and then get tight, go back and forth very easy for >a long time to free them up. This is much faster than trying to >remove a broken bolt later. Keep track of which bolt goes where >as the water pump bolts are various lengths. > > James Barrett Tiger II 351C and others
Subject: Re: Cooling System Treatise Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 13:45:27 -0700 From: Steve Laifman To: Richard F Flynn CC: "Tiger's Den" References: 1 , 2

Richard, and Tigers.
I am sending this message for Richard's questions, but have also included the 'list' as this question keeps coming up. If you don't want to hear about radiators, sources, filters, tips, etc. hit 'delete' now.

1) Gano Filters
I have tried two and thoroughly examined a third water filter for keeping scale from clogging our radiators. This is a problem with Tigers and old Iron Blocks, but can be solved.
First try was the Gano lexan plastic in-line filter for the top hose. It has a removable double conical screen set inside the assemble, which fits the inside of your top hose. The first screen has a hole in the center, so the periphery catches the bigger flakes, and the second screen has no hole and catches the rest. Fine brass screens soldered to a brass ring that bolts to the housing.
This is a good filter, but there is a major design problem, and a minor problem. The minor problem is that the transparent housing, supposedly allowing a view of the filter to know when to service it, can not bee seen through the green antifreeze. One could partially drain the coolant and see the filter, allowing a service reminder. The MAJOR problem is that there are no "lips" on the housing to keep the hose from slipping off. Only friction is keeping it together. A safety wire is supplied to keep the two clamps together, put I was a little wary of the pressure popping the unit out. I built a simple stay between the two clamps on the opposite side of the clamp positions using a piece of stainless clamp band that was under the clamps, and folded over the clamps at the ends. Still, I would miss the security of the "lip". Although I hadn't any problem with the lexan housing, it could be source of future problems if it breaks from age, pressure, or abuse.
The second filter was still the Gano filter, with all the good features, but the housing was solid machined brass, with "lips". Works just fine, and I check it every 3-5 months. This would depend on your experience with how fast your car releases scale. Mine was power back flushed, and had few miles, but many years on the block. Can't see through it, so I just butted the hose together and you can't tell it's there, except for the two clamps.
I highly recommend thus filter, and it is available at the CAT warehouse for members, an at classic Mustang Parts stores.
If you are going to get a radiator built locally (again) you just might consider having a mounting ring, with the threaded Gano mounting screw holes, installed inside or flush with the inlet tube. The filter is then screwed to the ring, and is accessed by removing the one hose connection. Much better than dual hose clamps, and uncertain retention. NOT sure diameters are compatible for this.
2) Radiators, Specs and sources.
My source, and specs:
I bought my re-core in Simi Valley. The owner will take your old radiator by UPS and return the new one to you, if you don't live nearby. I can vouch for his workmanship. He was recommended by the local Lotus expert mechanic, and he sold it for $300, + $21.75 California sales tax. This was over a year ago, s some change may have occurred , and out-of-state doesn't pay tax, but does pay shipping.
When I asked him about the specs for the core, for those living elsewhere, he gave it to me, and I published it, but he also offered to do the work by UPS.
Ask for Ken, I told him I was going to give out this information. His caution is that he does not know the condition of your tanks. Before he can give you a firm quote, he must assure that the parts he needs are usable. Give him a call.
Commercial Radiator Service 864 Los Angeles Avenue Simi Valley, CA 93065 (805-527-3332) (FAX 805-520-1148)
B.A.R. #AG029137 (California Bureau of Automotive Repair shop number)
He calls it a Special High Efficiency Core and they are 5/16 tubes on 3/8 centers from Modine's custom department. 4 row, 14 fin/inch, and fit the stock tanks in width.

A source for a hi performance 3 row by Paul Reisentz
Tiger Radiators for Sale;
Brand new Brass/Copper radiators, new brackets, new core, new header plates, new thicker- walled tanks, and all new connections. These radiators look just like the originals, except for the modern updated core design. Core is three row and works best when used with a good fan such as the Ford C9DZ-8600-A.
All materials and workmanship guaranteed for one year. Satisfaction guaranteed or your money back, with return of radiator, of course. All radiators sold only after phone conversation with yours truly to determine whether or not my product/products will solve your problem. In other words, these radiators are not intended to cool 400 HP race cars or 260's bored out to 289's.
Over 130 of these radiators sold over the past ten years with lots of satisfied customers. One-off radiators made for additional cost depending on modifications.
Price: $400 plus shipping; FOB San Jose, CA
Paul Reisentz Reisentz Restorations 408-369-0470

Cullen Bennett's Aluminum Core Source, >Where did you get it? What is their phone number and location? The radiator is custom built by "Ron Davis Racing Products" on the West side of Phoenix. The address is: Ron Davis Racing Products 7334 W. 108th Ave. Glendale, AZ 85307 (602)-877-5000

Doug Jennings (per Gary Schotland)
I guess it depends on where you get your aluminum radiator because I've heard the ones Doug Jennings of Tiger Auto is selling are a very good (not perfect) fit with the original shroud. That's the one I'm planning to get for my car.
Doug, please reply with your e-mail and radiator specs and costs.
3) Cooling Fans
Did I understand yours is a 'puller' fan taking air away from the radiator to the grille? You might consider the two alternatives of reversing the fan blades (a common manufacturer's dual use provision) and reversing the wire polarity to reverse the rotation direction of the motor.
On fans, although I know you ordered one, I thought I'd make this list complete for others.
My source: (courtesy Bob Palmer)
The fan source is Scott Manufacturing, 25520 AVE. Stanford, STE. 304, Valencia, CA 91355. (805) 295-9340 or (800) 544-5596. Gary Wilson is our Tiger expert . I bought, under advice from Bob Palmer, their FR13A-3.75 Pusher fan with the "Terminator" motor. I also bought a quick connect, a relay base, the threaded foot kit, the terminator kit insulated 20 amp fuse with body-mount holder, a 25 amp toggle switch and a 40 amp relay. Didn't use the switch, as I found a SPST Lucas switch I put in the unused "choke" hole.
Need some wood working behind this to clear the Lucas switch. No biggie. The total cost was $120 plus $8 S&H and any appropriate taxes. Good unit, 12 amps, with a 3 3/4 inch over-all fan depth with this motor. No big pancake. The 13 inch fan is 13 3/4 by 14 inches, and is as big as your going to get in without major surgery. 1600 CFM.
BTW: I do not recommend an 'automatic sensor' for two reasons.
A) You don't want this thing wired to run when the ignition is off, for safety, and that's usually when it gets soak-back. B) You know when your engine is hot, and whether your road speed is slow enough for an electric fan. C) The 'sensor' is forced between tubes to sense the temperature. With routine vibration it can wear it's way through the tube causing a failure.
Air Flow:
There are still plenty of other things that can help. A LAT Hood is one way to get air out. Horn extenders and hole blockers can prevent air by-passing the radiator. I have a lower inlet to radiator bottom air guide designed and currently in fabrication. It forces the air coming in the lower front valance holes to go through the radiator, instead of under it. Bob Palmer has a similar solution. I am working on a hidden air dam to fit on this guide and be of flexible material to prevent damage on bumps and things. It will force the air flowing under the radiator through a smaller opening between the ground and the body. This will accelerate the air, and cause a lower pressure area to exist behind the radiator. That 'sucks' more air through the radiator. The faster you go, the more is 'sucks'. I hesitate to use the words 'partial vacuum' as it is more properly a local pressure drop. Bob has used a Ford sedan part that fastens to his valance. I have used the same approach about 20 years ago on my Ferrari/Lotus looking Fiero rear engine custom chassis/body hand built special. Works fine.
I have also installed a pair of half size overflow/return water kits between the cylindrical tank and the radiator, coupled to another under the fender. I do not have a cooling problem, with the 6 blade fan and high-po radiator, but the rest of this is just oversights in the car design and protection from those 105 deg. days in stuck traffic (yesterday).

Keep this, as if you don't have a heating problem, you may later wish to help someone who does.
Hope this helps. Good luck, Richard.
Steve -- Steve Laifman B9472289

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