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Subject: Re: Tires/wheels
Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998
From: (Gary A Winblad)
To: "Tim Beloney"
CC:
References:
1
I am running Porsche 924 optional alloy 14x6 wheels with 195/60/14 Yoko A509 on my stock fendered Tiger, works great. Plan to upgrade to Panasport 15 inch next year though.
Gary
On Thu, 31 Dec 1998
Tim Beloney writes:
> While we are on the subject, I was going to go with 14x6 wheels on my
> Alpine. I was told by an Alpine lister that 185/70/14 is the tire
>size he runs, but I see a lot of people saying they run 185/70/13. I
> would think I'd need a lower profile tire for a 14" wheel, like a 60
> series, to make it work without tire rub up front?
>
> That being said, I am leaning more toward a 15" minilite style wheel
> from perhaps Panasport or Superlite (other brand recommendations
> gladly accepted). What 15" wheel size(15 x 5.5 or 15 x 6 ?), offset,
> and tire size would be the best?
>
>Anybody out there with 14" or 15" for sale?
>
>
>Thanks
>
>
>Tim Beloney
>VAR Development Manager
>Wyse Technology
>tbeloney@wyse.com
<
>510.749.9432 (phone)
>510.714.2067 (cell/pgr)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
From: Bob Palmer
> Sent: Wednesday, December 30,
1998 8:50 PM
> To: Paul Sheahan
> Subject: Re: Tires
>
> Paul, et Listers,
>
> I just took a look at these tires on their Web site and they seem to be a
> good choice given the limited selection available for 13" diameter rims;
> i.e., almost nil. I'm confused by their statement about the UTQG of
> 160AA (oem) and 260AA (others). The lower the mileage number the
> stickier the tire. My Yokohamas (AVS Intemediate) also have a UTQG
> of 160AA. The last set lasted about two years of occasionally hard use
> and a total of about 25-30k highway miles which is about as much wear
> as I'd want them to have. And their price for the 205/50-15 size is
> $130/ea versus $49/ea for the RE92's. I have driven the Bridgestone
> Expedias on my Tiger and I was very impressed with their crisp
> response compared with the AVS's.
>I don't know if this relates at all to the RE92's but maybe it shows
>that at least Bridgestone is capable of building good tires.
>
> If you ever decide to get new rims, I recommend going
>to 15" diameter, both for better handling and, perhaps most important,
>better selection of high performance types. Better yet would be 16"
> diameter, but this starts to look a little out of proportion on a Tiger
> (IMHO of course). Also, the 50 series on 15" diameter is about the
> same overall diameter as your 13" rims and tires.
>
> Let us know what you think to the new tires if you
>decide to get them. One thing for sure, they will be a lot
> better in the rain than the 008's
>
> Happy New Year,
>
> Bob
>
> At 09:07 PM 12/30/98 -0500, MR. PAUL R SHEAHAN wrote:
> > Hello All,
> > I am still searching for tires. Tire Rack
> > recommends Bridgestone Potenza RE92's.
> > They aren't A008R's but such is life. I
> > want to stay with my 185 70 13 size so this is what
> > they recommend.
> > Has anyone had any experience with these tires
> > or this brand.
> > Any help would be appreciated.
> >
> > Paul R. Sheahan
>
> Robert L. Palmer
> Dept. of AMES, Univ. of Calif., San
Diego
> rpalmer@ames.ucsd.edu
> rpalmer@cts.com
>
Subject: tigers sighting / tires
Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1999 15:00:42
+0000
From: "Scott Lampert"
i was watching PBS , and they had a show on rock n roll. there was what looked like black and white news footage of the group the animals arriving in new york city for a show in '64 or '65. they were each in tigers, i saw three or maybe four. very cool.
i am running panasports with P700's front 15x6 with 195vr 50/15 rear 15x7 with 205vr 50/15 no rub.
scott
B9472628
Subject: Re: Stud length for alloy wheels
Date: Fri, 1 Jan 1999
From: (John Haynes)
To: "Scott Lampert"
The VB Minilite look alike wheels I have are thicker at the stud holes than the Lat alloys, causing the lug nuts to only use about 5 threads. Where can I get longer studs ?
Sam Haynes
Subject: Re: Stud length for alloy wheels
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999
From: "Bob Palmer"
To: "Chris Richards" ;
"John Haynes"
Chris, Sam, et Listers,
Chris is essentially correct, although in error with a few of the details. In particular, I believe it was the "rod length" thread, not the "stud length" thread, but hopefully we can all put that unhappy chapter behind us along with the rest of the '98 history and start with a fresh slate for '99.
Sam, regarding "studs", as Chris says, they are pretty cheap and readily available, so the only question is which ones to choose. In addition to the length, the knurled and thread diameters are also important. While the stock 7/16" studs are adequate in principle, 1/2" studs give you a nice margin of safety wrt overtorqueing. You may need to re-drill the stud holes anyway to get the right interference fit with the knurled section of the new studs. You want this fit to be right (i.e., as tight as possible) so the studs don't come loose later. The studs I recommend are 1/2-20 X 1-15/16" (Dorman Products part no. 610-080). They are zinc or cadmium coated and I bought them in a box of ten for a price I can't remember, but probably less than $20. Replacing the front axle studs is relatively easy, but if you have the hubs re-drilled, have it done in a manner that ensures accuracy. (NOT with a hand drill in situ.) The same goes for the rear axle, but in this case, you will probably need to pull hubs off the rear axles in order to install the new studs (either 7/16" or 1/2"). I know one person who was able to install 1/2" studs by putting a hole in the backing plate and installing them this way, but I've never tried this myself. Besides, I wouldn't trust drilling the holes out using a hand drill. There have been postings to the LIst about how best to pull the rear axle hubs, which can be very difficult and downright dangerous if not done properly. I'm sure someone can repost this procedure for you if you have questions.
Good luck and Happy New Year from Sunny in the 70's San Diego,
Bob
At 07:59 PM 1/1/99 -0500, Chris Richards
wrote:
>I think Bob Palmer addressed this issue earlier this year. His posting
>caused 14 people to be fired from their employers, 24 to be chastised by
>their peers, and 327 others to spend numerous late hours viewing questional
>Web Sites. Longer Studs are a dime a dozen; it is the rim holes that are
>expensive.
>
>Another Calander New Year-
>
>Chris in Trinidad
>
>----------
>>
From: "John Haynes"
>> To: "Scott Lampert"
>>
Subject: Re: Stud length for alloy wheels
>>
Date: Friday, January 01, 1999 6:23 PM
>>
>> The VB Minilite look alike wheels I have are thicker at the stud holes
>> than the Lat alloys, causing the lug nuts to only use about 5 threads. Where
>> can I get longer studs ?
>> Sam Haynes
>> >
Robert L. Palmer
Dept. of AMES, Univ. of Calif., San Diego
rpalmer@cts.com
Subject: Re: Stud length for alloy
wheels
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 1999
14:27:09 EST
From: "Jim Leach"
If you choose to use 1/2 inch studs, you will have to find a wheel with 1/2 inch stud holes for your spare tire. The ARP 7/16" wheel studs have an extremely high rating, certainly adequate for a small car. They are also very long and unless you like the Nascar-look, will need to be shortened.
Happy New Year everyone!
Jim Leach, Seattle
Subject: Re: Tires
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 1999
From: "Bob Palmer"
To:(Gary A Winblad)
m,
Gary, Paul, et Listers,
I know I'm repeating myself, but what the heck, it's a new year. On the front axle the fit is the most stringent. I recommend 15" wheels with 7" width and 4-3/4" to 4-7/8" rear spacing (195 or 205/50 tires of course). This will necessitate cutting some clearance in the lower valence area of the wheel arch, but this is probably acceptable to even the "stock" oriented contingent. (Note that this information applies only to 15" and larger diameters because of interference with the upper control arm.
Note also that from a handling perspective, it is best to place the front wheels as far inboard as possible; i.e., just the opposite of the low-rider style.This is not the case for the rear axle, however.) I am actually running Centerline ConvoPro 7.5" wide rims up front, but without the negative camber, they would stick out a wee too much. The same wheels will fit on the rear axle, but you will probably want to increase the rear track to make front and back more equal. This means maybe up to an inch less back spacing or a correspondingly wider rim. I use the 8.5" wide ConvoPro in back, but have flared the rear wheel arches a bit to accommodate the wider rim (using 225/50-15 Yokohama AVS Intermediate tires).
Bob
At 11:12 PM 12/31/98 -0800, Gary A Winblad wrote:
>Bob,
>Which wheels/tires are you running (and car mods)??
>15 inch wheels are on my plans for 1999!
>Anybody else have a good setup?
>Thanks,
>Gary
>
Robert L. Palmer
Dept. of AMES, Univ. of Calif., San Diego
rpalmer@ames.ucsd.edu
rpalmer@cts.com
Subject: Re: Stud length for alloy
wheels
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999
From: Mike Wood
To: Jim Leach
In a message dated 1/2/99 TIGEROOTES@aol.com writes:
If you choose to use 1/2 inch studs, you will have to find a wheel with 1/2 inch studholes for your spare tire. The ARP 7/16" wheel studs have an extremely high rating certainly adequate for a small car. They are also very long and unless you like the Nascar-look, will need to be shortened.
Many agree that going to 1/2" studs is not worth the trouble, others like the extra margin of safety. For a street driven application, I don't see any reason to go to 1/2". If the car is to be raced, open tracked, autocrossed frequently, it probably makes sense to install long 1/2" studs, use longer lug nuts and leave 3-5 threads exposed on the back side of the lug nuts: just like NASCAR, SCCA and NHRA require.
Mike
Subject: Re: Stud length for alloy
wheels
Date: Mon, 04 Jan 1999 18:28:37
-0800
From: Tom Hall
To: Bob Palmer
CC:
At 09:22 AM 1/3/99 -0800, you wrote:
...
>Jim, I've been told by my engineering friends that all you need to achieve
>the maximum strength of the bolt is a thread depth equal to the diameter of
>the bolt. Now, I feel better having a bit more than this, but it doesn't
>seem likely that drilling out the nuts to achieve yet another 1/4" is going
>to add any strength. It does, however, insure that you neither bottom out
>because of too long studs, or hydraulically jam the nut if you apply grease
>to the threads (a no-no with closed end nuts).
>
>Again I say, for all the work required to replace the studs of either
>diameter, the choice is really pretty arbitrary. If one chooses 7/16", then
>use at least grade 8 or ARP super bolts and be extra careful not to
>over-torque them. With either 1/2" or 7/16", a major point is to get the
>interference fit between the knurled portion of the shank and the hub holes
>sufficiently tight. This might be harder to achieve if you replace with
>7/16" studs.
>Bob
Bob,
For those who might be interested, I have a hardened tool steel fixture to drill and tap either front or rear hubs for 1/2-20 threads. The fixture locates on the proper hub steps for concentricity and fits over a remaining 7/16 stud for rotational location. After drilling and tapping, I use 1/2-20 button head socket screws which are typically in the grade 8-9 strength range. They are available in several appropriate lengths to accommodate various wheel thickness and/or spacer plates. I install them with hi strength locktite, but they remain changeable. This seems to be an essentially bullet proof method to install changeable high strength studs for severe duty and avoids the problems of knurl fitting, location, alignment, and hydraulic press requirements.
I also strongly recommend that any closed mag type nuts be "chased" with the appropriate bottoming tap to produce full depth threads. Most manufacturers of these type of nuts do a very quick and dirty threading operation leaving 1/4" or more untapped at the bottom. This is just a "good practice" procedure to avoid potential problems.
Tom
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